"This wind coming in feels like home. It's comforting and it soothes me." A place for people who consider YYH home! Also home of the YYH Doujinshi Masterlist. Let's revive this fandom!
Of course that’s valid 🙂 I wouldn’t get mad at someone’s preference! And I like some redhead Kurama topping Hiei sometimes, too. But I don’t like conflating “bottoming” with femininity. I don’t like Kurama on the bottom because he’s “feminine.” I think there’s a huge backlash against Kurama being on the bottom because early fandom, when the m/m fandom was still being born and we still had yaoi with lemons and limes, people would often characterize Kurama as too feminine, almost turning him into a woman, both in how he was portrayed in writing and in art.
But I feel like we’ve moved past that. At least, I and my personal circle mostly had. To me, things such as level of femininity or masculinity have nothing to do with the top/bottom dynamic, if there even is one. In early fandom especially, there was somewhat of a love/hate relationship with m/m in general, and “gay” relationships were just portrayed completely unrealistically, including sex.
This is actually a great chance to discuss something I’ve wanted to talk about for a while.
This is mostly speculation and my limited observations, so please don’t take any offense to it. Long winded informal discussion, rant, meta??? of yaoi, femininity, uke/seme, all that, below.
You also tend to forget that there are a significant amount of gay/bi men who aren’t primarily into anal or penetration, that the most common m/m sex act is oral sex, and that a lot of the genre’s focus on anal is basically a substitute for PIV for the female readership.
And even if you do include penetrative sex, there is such a thing as “topping from the bottom” with the partner being penetrated being the one in control of the situation. (This goes for women in hetero pairings for conventional PIV sex as well.)
^ Great addition! I could have been clearer (I did say it was rambling, haha!) but the idea of anal being a substitute for f/m sex is what I was trying to get at, and that there isn’t always a clear “top” or “bottom” in same sex relationships because not everyone engaged in penetrative sex.
But this is yet another great example of why the yaoi genre was never primarily concerned with m/m relationships, but f/m, with one men acting as a proxy for the woman. Though, as bizarrolord mentioned, even women can be “in control.”
Overall, I find the whole uke/seme dynamic old fashioned, the same way I find men always paying for dinner or being the ones to ask for the first date a bit old fashioned.
Because this is tumblr and people can’t read, I’m gonna start this entire post by saying this:
I DO NOT BELIEVE PEOPLE WHO COMMIT ART THEFT IN 2K18 ARE DOING SO MALICIOUSLY. I SINCERELY BELIEVE PEOPLE SIMPLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG, AND THAT NO ONE IS DOING THESE THINGS TO BE AN JERK OR BECAUSE THEY WANNA STEAL.
Good?
Read that again.
Alright, let’s move on.
So, art theft. People get accused of art theft a lot, especially now, especially on tumblr, especially in relationship to anime and manga fandom. Let’s talk about what is and what is not art theft.
In the past, art theft (especially on DeviantArt) was a thing where Person A would post an image, and Person B would trace it or color over it or do some other sort of manipulation to it (or not! people are crazy), then post it as original art. Someone would accuse Person B of art theft, Person B would argue that they changed the art significantly enough that it wasn’t theft (or not, who knows), and then there would be Drama.
This isn’t at all what I’m talking about.
Art theft in 2k18 is different than in 1998.
Art theft in 2k18 looks like this:
I’m using this as an example, and while I realize this looks like a callout post, it’s not meant to be a callout. But I need some sort of indication to show. No falsified example is going to show exactly what the problem is as clearly and precisely as something that is exactly the problem. (To point, I have tried, through multiple channels, to get in touch with the person from this blog, to no avail. So on we go.)
Let’s call this a teachable moment. Let’s call this a chance to be better. Let’s call this an example in a fandom that is, frankly, fraught with this kind of stuff.
Let’s call this an explanation of why art theft is so prevalent and common that it can be hard to recognize.
If you click on that, you can go to the artist’s twitter page, with the image:
So how is posting a picture on tumblr art theft?
First, let’s talk about what was done.
The person who posted this on tumblr went onto this twitter page, downloaded/saved the image, then went back to Tumblr, uploaded it, posted a link with the translated name beneath (the artist’s name is NOT in the link), added some tags (including the artist’s twitter handle as a tag), and posted it.
Now, let’s talk about what this means. As of this posting, the tumblr post has 1310 notes. The artist’s post, on twitter (this particular artist also has a pixiv account, but this image was not posted there) has 563 retweets, and 1643 likes, for a combined total notes of 2206 notes.
The tumblr page has 1310 notes that the actual artist will never see.
“So what?” you might say. “It’s exposure, and there’s a link to their twitter. What’s the problem?”
Well, for starters, don’t just decide for someone else what they want and don’t want. Artists who want their art shared are pretty vocal about it, but for the most part, most artists clearly state: Do not reupload onto other sites. Most image sharing sites like Pixiv (a closed service, meaning you need to have an account, agree to the Terms of Service, and be logged in to view images) clearly have it in said Terms of Service to not do exactly what was done above, to the point that Pixiv has it as the second point in a highlighted section at the very top of their Terms of Service that you must not repost an artist’s work without permission:
So even if you willfully ignore both the will of the hosting site and the requests of the artist, even if the art is posted somewhere without a terms of service, and even if the artist doesn’t explicitly say ‘please don’t reupload my art elsewhere,’ the best policy is to move in respect for the artists, and understand that if they wanted their art on other sites, they would post them there themselves.
And also, since you really should want to ask permission in the spirit of like, you know, the kind of consent we’re always going on about on this site, you can always ask the artist.
Please also understand that fandom is not monolith. Just because YOU don’t mind exposure doesn’t mean someone else feels the same way. Just because your friends don’t mind exposure doesn’t mean someone else feels the same way.
Anecdotal: I had a eastern-fandom friend whose family found out she drew BL doujinshi semi-professionally. She was outed, and she was kicked out of her house, lost support from her family and close friends, and basically had her life ruined for a good chunk of years because of it. There are still consequences to this, despite it having happened some fifteen years ago.
Anecdotal: I have several fandom friends have their work shared onto sites like Facebook and Tumblr, where they’re found by people they work with/family, to the point that they’ve left fandom altogether because the risks were too great.
“But Paris, the person above put a source, a link to the twitter where they found the art!!! You’re just splitting hairs!” you say. “The artist is still getting credit! Don’t be a bully!”
Nah, boo. I’m not being a bully. I’m trying to educate you, darling.
What you have to keep in mind is that even by putting a source, you’re still committing art theft, because you are taking away the ability to choose where an artist puts their art.
“But Paris, like, what about unsourced art in like museums?! Are you saying we shouldn’t put anything in museums if we don’t have the artist’s permission?”
Listen, I can’t believe I’m honoring this absolute garbage with a response, but you and I both know there’s a huge difference between a piece of art from a lost artist, and an artist publicly asking for their art to remain under their control, and people deciding to ignore them.
“But Paris, you big old jerk,” you ask, “how can I have pretty things on my tumblr if I don’t just download art and post it?”
Well, one of two ways:
1) You can contact the artist and ask permission to post. Here’s some cute templates for how to do so. If you don’t like these, there are others, or, you know, you can use Google Translate. It’s not hard, and even if it was hard, that’s not an excuse. You can even reach out to people like me or other multilingual people to help you if you aren’t comfortable trying to contact them in English.
“But what if the artist says no because they’re a giant meanie who doesn’t want free exposure?”
2) The second way you can keep your blog full of pretty shiny things is by linking to the image properly. On tumblr, when you link to things, an image shows up. For example, if I copy the above twitter link and post it as a twitter link here in tumblr, I get the following:
This allows the very cute art to appear on my blog, without having to going out of my way. Anyone who clicks on it will go directly to the twitter page, and it includes the artist’s name as the primary part of the caption.
If the link is from pixiv, it looks like this:
(Please notice how Pixiv has been so fraught with art theft that at this point, they have an automatic filter that appears on the art itself, with a hard link to the image and the artist on the bottom right. This is because art theft is a huge problem.)
We have an obligation to the artists who enrich our fandom lives with their beautiful, beautiful porn art, to treat their works with respect. We can respect the wishes of the artists for the totally selfish reason of wanting to encourage them to make more art, but it should be enough to say we don’t want to be assholes. I mean, it’s simple niceness, people. I don’t know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.
If someone says, “Please don’t repost my art,” don’t repost their art. If a site says, “Please don’t repost the art found here,” don’t repost the art. Simple mathematics, kids.
“But Paaaaaaaaris!” you wail. “What am I supposed to do when I come upon stolen art on my feed? I wanna reblob it! :C And since I’m not the one who posted it originally, it’s totally okay to just reblob it, right? 😀 Right?”
Well, darling, you have a choice. You can just hit that big ol’ reblog button and continue to perpetuate the same issues I’ve rather clearly delineated above. OR YOU CAN FOLLOW THE GUIDE ABOVE AND MAKE A NEW POST. For example, let’s say I really like the “Summer Twins” image above. I could just hit reblog and move on with my life, who cares, la-dee-da, or I could go to the source, and post a link from there.
The choice is yours, fandom. It’s all about the kind of world you want to surround yourself with. If you want to be a person who treats others with respect, you shouldn’t repost or post stolen art. If you want to be a person who is a credit to the fandom, follow the guides above, educate yourself, and make changes to the way you interact with content.
IN CONCLUSION, I WILL RESTATE MY THESIS: NO ONE WHO IS COMMITTING ART THEFT IN THIS WAY IS DOING SO TO BE A JERK. THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG. BUT KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, AND WE SHOULD ALL STRIVE TO KNOW BETTER.
Thanks, and my inbox is open, and ready for hate. 😘
^^^
So, this is the mistake I made, and I dearly apologize for it. I appreciate Paris pointing out this isn’t always done in malice, because it certainly wasn’t so in my case. Nonetheless I made a mistake, and I deeply apologize for it.
My two cents below.
I was baffled at being called an art thief, because I always credited or at least tried to find sources. Paris explained with the deviantart example what stealing used to look like. Nowadays, that’s almost gone, but a new form, called reposting, has emerged. It doesn’t help that most posts about this topic don’t really explain the concept well.
The problem is that we’re taking away agency and control from the artist. Linking (clicking the icon to link to tumblr, not make a text or image post) allows the artist to see it, and it allows the artist to keep control of the work. If say, they uploaded a piece of art that they later went and corrected for some reason, the linked version will reflect that. If they delete or make private, the link will reflect that. The link also gives all information about the artist. The reposts don’t.
To make things worse, some artists can actually be harmed by reposts. And not meaning, their feelings were hurt or something. I mean actual harm. Say, a Russian artist posts on pixiv their art of gay ships. Which in Russia, by the way, can get you arrested. It’s on pixiv, controlled, and can be deleted if someone starts snooping. If there’s links, and the artist is afraid their work will be found, they can make it private or delete, and the link will reflect that. A repost won’t. Even worse, reposts can be placed on sites the artist knows they can’t post their work, because it is risky. Say, facebook, where their family members might come across it. If someone reposts, the artist can’t control what happens to the art. It can be found by someone who can use it against them… and there, a life literally ruined, over a repost. With the internet as ubiquitous as it is today, this is a real danger.
So linking is how we should share art. It leaves power in the hands of the artist. It doesn’t steal agency and control from them. And it’s actually easier and quicker to do than reposting, because the image and credits (name and time stamp and such) are typically auto-generated.
So there, here’s the reason why linking is not just the right way to do it, but is better than re-posting!
Genkai technically gets hit with the ‘depowered for a man’s growth’ trope but this is immediately followed by her continuing to KICK ASS in the Dark Tournament bc her depowered self is still amazing.
Mod Lola agrees wholeheartedly! I never saw the transfer of the spirit wave orb as that trope because she went and not only beat Shishi and Suzuka, thus assuring Team Urameshi made it to the finals, as an 70 year old depowered grandma, but she also went right after that to fight Toguro. While she lost badly, the fight was still amazingly epic, and her words of wisdom from that fight have stayed with this mod forever!
It’s depressing af but also friendship saves the day
Tru dat
… the story and characters tries to break the mold for what is common in the shounen genre.
Very much in agreement! I have always loved shonen anime/manga, but YYH broke so many trends that I couldn’t help but fall in love. Not just tropes in shonen, but in the Hero’s Journey in general. Yusuke’s mentor is an old lady, not an old man. Mukuro bends all sorts of gender rules with her nonchalant attitude towards being called king and her appearance. Botan, the “main” girl doesn’t get with the “main guy.” Yusuke’s friends actually become weaker when he dies, demoralized. Instead of getting a power boost of pure rage, they mourn him, their heads not in the game at all.
I could go on for days!
What keeps me loving the series for all these years has been the personality dynamics between the main four guys. Without their balance and the way everyone plays off of one another, YYH would run the risk of becoming just another shonen fighting anime.
Very much so! The four boys play off each other very nicely, each having a unique, interesting relationship with each other. They’re not all just Goku-worshipers; they love Yusuke, yes, but they also have loyalties to each other. They’re a true group, a true team, not just Yusuke and his buds.
When I was younger I loved the action. Now I love it for nostalgia.
This mod can relate. It’s my comfort anime.
I’ll update again when there’s more fun stuff said in the survey!
YYH-Revival 